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Are you charged up? [Power Hour - Ep. 1 featuring Scott Stanford]

by Lacy Stockton | May 21, 2021

Scott Stanford answers your questions live on this first edition of the Power Hour, with your host, Lacy Stockton. They answer your questions about saving energy at home and local businesses...and some other bonus questions, too!

In this episode, we cover your questions like:

  • Energy-efficient windows: Do my vinyl windows qualify for a PUD rebate? What do I do about condensation?
  • Should I charge my phone before going live?
  • Which rebates are options for new construction?
  • What’s so great about hybrid water heaters?
  • What things can I DIY(do-it-yourself) and get a rebate on?
  • Why doesn’t the PUD give incentives on tankless water heaters?
  • How can I make my 1920’s home more comfortable?
  • What do you recommend for air sealing and insulation of a new home?
  • Does the PUD offer cash back on under-floor heating?
  • Can renters get PUD rebates?
  • And more! 

Watch Now:

The Power Hour is available LIVE on Facebook Wednesdays at 5:30 pm. Our energy solutions team will be there to answer your questions on rebates, energy efficiency, renewables like solar, electric vehicles, incentives for local businesses, home improvements, and more. 

You can join us live and ask your questions in the event comments. Or email your questions to conservation@chelanpud.org.

Each Power Hour episode will be uploaded to YouTube and to the Power Hour Podcast, available on Spotify and online for your listening pleasure. 

Listen to the Power Hour Podcast:

 

The Power Hour Podcast, Episode 1, featuring Scott Stanford:

Lacy: Welcome to the very first Power Hour. We are so excited to have you. My name is Lacy Stockton. I am your Power Hour host and today we have Scott Stanford, our commercial energy advisor and former home builder who is going to be joining us. So, we're in for a treat. Chat in the comments. I can see them and I will share your questions with Scott. Hey Scott! How is it going? 

Scott: Good! How are you? 

Lacy: Dude, I'm loving the flowers. I like the setup.

Scott: Backside hillside! 

Lacy: Right on. Yeah, it's wildflower season for sure. Thank you so much for being the guinea pig on our first ever Power Hour. 

Scott: Well, I'm sure Andrew would have nobody else but me do this for the first time. 

Lacy: So let’s see how it goes. (Andrew would be our boss.) This is sanctioned. I really appreciate it. So the point of the Power Hour, as you know, is for our customer-owners to be able to ask all the questions that they have about energy efficiency, home improvements, which you know a ton about you used to be a home builder for about 20 years. They can ask questions about our incentives for our local businesses that the PUD offers. You run our commercial programs, so you're the perfect one to answer those questions as well. And we also have some specialists on our team for renewable energy and electric vehicles so if you have questions about those, send them to us and we are going to have Jim field those on a later Power Hour episode.  

For today, everyone, welcome! If you have any questions just type them in the comments below on Facebook and we will pass them on over. 

Hi Kim! What question do you have about failing windows? If you could type a little bit more about  your failing windows, Scott will answer those. Tim, you have a solar question about your house, the best person to ask is going to be Jim and so I am going to send you a link to our Power Hour page. Jim is going to be on on June 9th and he knows everything about everything solar. He is our senior conservation engineer and so I hope that you can make that one. 

So Scott, windows are a really popular measure that we have. Kim's asking about, “What happens when my windows fail?”

Scott: Well, I mean it could be that it's actually leaking water into the house. The seal around the window where it's attached into the house is broken. Or it could be that the seal between the panes has lost its seal and it's getting condensation and stuff like that inside there. Windows are one of our more popular residential upgrades. They're gonna help with air infiltration for sure.  

You get a lot of other non-energy benefits: It can make it more quiet, you can tint it so it makes it cooler in the house. There's just lots of...  Plus, the aesthetics of just something new on the outside of the home. 

Lacy: Yeah, thanks! It looks like Kim is asking specifically.... So she has a residential window in her home. She had new windows installed in 1991, so they're going on 30 years. At the time, they were pretty efficient, vinyl windows but they're just not performing as they used to. Would those qualify for her to get some rebates from the PUD? 

Scott: Unfortunately, I don't believe so. I know for sure on commercial, they don't. If it's a vinyl window, it just it just doesn't qualify, which is unfortunate because there's a lot of 30 year old vinyl windows out there that the seals have failed or the argon gas has gotten out between the panes, but it's just, there's no prescriptive path for us to follow for that to rebate for those types of things. Yeah and I know that this is a question that we get a lot for residential. 

Lacy: Yes, Kim saying, "my seals are failing, I have some condensation," which I think we can talk about because that's kind of a separate issue to the window itself and she's saying, "maybe for future incentives" and she's totally right. As technology gets better and better, the old technology from 30 years ago, those things start becoming eligible for rebates. As of right now, our residential rebates for windows, they're only covering if you have single pane (so just one layer of glass) or if you have metal frame windows, you're eligible for residential and commercial rebates on your windows. But perhaps vinyl will come, Kim. I think it's a great suggestion because we get that question a lot. On the question for condensation, though, this is, I think, a common misconception. Scott, can you tell us about what causes condensation on a window? Is it the window itself or is there something else going on? 

Scott: No, you're getting moisture inside and then the heat. The vapor barrier basically moves and the heat gets inside there and it gets condensation. With the cool on the outside and warm on the inside, it's creating that condensation inside the window. 

Lacy: So, this can be a ventilation question. Right, so is there proper ventilation in the main hotspots, being the bath and the kitchen? And she's saying that there's condensation between her panes. 

Scott: So she has double pane windows and between the pane, the seal is broken between the two pieces of glass and that's where it's getting in there and that's creating the temperature change and that's where things are happening inside, between the glass. 

Lacy: What should Kim do? 

Scott: Well, you can get new IG or insulated glass units or you can just pop the unit out. You gotta take the whole window out of the house or they can actually just pop the window pane out and put a new sealed unit back in, which is probably the way to attack that. 

But hey, Lacy. You know, since it's the first trip out...guess whose phone's almost dead? 

Lacy: Oh no! 

Scott: I need a phone charger. 

Lacy: So, Scott you gotta go inside! It's okay because the next question from Chuck is totally not a you question. So Scott, how about this? How about you go inside, get your charger, and we'll rendezvous back here. I can field the next question. 

Scott: Okay sounds good. 

Lacy: That guy! No, just kidding. Scott's great! 

So the next question that we have is from Chuck. Chuck is asking, "What is the latest on wildfires and utility lines being shut down to prevent power lines causing fires?" This is a great question. It's not an energy efficiency question but it's all good. So we have...it's called FSOM fire safety outage management. We have a whole team of people, not just at the PUD, but also with our wildland firefighters that are coordinating mainly in the Lake Wenatchee area to determine what the best approach is going to be to manage any sort of situation when it's fire season where we would want to mitigate any sort of fire risk that's what's going on. So, as of right now, the team, the FSOM (the fire safety outage management) team is meeting. They're collaborating to see what  needs to happen, if there needs to be any planned outages mainly again in that Lake Wenatchee area perhaps later in the summer or not. And their recommendations I believe are going to come out in early to mid-June. So if you want any updates on that, you can you can always write or give us a call using the contact at the main part of the PUD webpage chelanpud.org and we can put you on a list so that you know and that you're updated about any outage management updates that we have once those become available. 

If you're just joining us we are here with Scott Stanford who unfortunately has a dying phone so he is off getting a charger as we speak. He is also our commercial energy advisor so he runs our commercial program. We have a ton of incentives right now for our local businesses big and teeny tiny. Some of the most popular right now are for heat pumps because the incentive kind of pays for most all of the heat pumps which is pretty amazing. Scott, are you there?  

Scott: Yes! 

Lacy: Hey, it works. You're all plugged in. Great! 

Scott: All plugged in, running an extension cord. That's all right.

Lacy: You can send in questions to conservation@chelanpud.org at any time that you think of them and we'll answer them on the show. We have a couple of those. This first one is from John. John had asked us about an old building downtown that he owns. It's mostly vacant he says since some renters had left that were doing retail in the space and he was curious which upgrades can the PUD help him pay for when he goes to renovate that commercial space. 

Scott: So John, the first thing we do is we got to figure out what your heating source is. Is it electric? Is it a heat pump? Is it gas? We have a lot of businesses downtown that are on gas heat and since we're an electric utility, that will limit some of the rebate programs that you're actually eligible for. If you have gas heat, it's pretty much going to knock you out of all of our programs except lighting. So that's the first step we're going to look for.  

And then the next thing is we should look at your heating source, if it's electric. Because that's one of your biggest power users, so you want to maybe upgrade that first and we got plenty of help for getting you from electric resistance to a heat pump or upgrading your heat pumps to newer more efficient heat pumps as well. From there, air sealing, insulation, anything weatherization to your building which is windows which you talked about earlier in this program.   

It's sometimes hard with the downtown buildings though the way they're built to get insulation so I would definitely want to go after air sealing. Look at your windows and then obviously lighting for sure. We've got connected thermostats. There's lots of different areas to attack, to look at and evaluate your older building there.

Lacy: Yeah, that's a great point. Sometimes when we think about what things qualify and what don't, what doesn't sometimes it almost doesn't seem to make sense. But really what we're looking for is we're looking for electricity savings. And so if something is going to help save gas, we don't service any gas at Chelan PUD. We just do clean hydropower, so we can't  really pay out any incentives on that sort of thing. Your gas utility potentially could and you might ask them. Sometimes gas utilities do that, but if you're running gas, which happens in some of the older commercial buildings in downtown Wenatchee and Chelan, for those measures that would be saving gas, ask the gas people. If it's saving power, ask Scott.

Okay Gailanne got back to us. She is asking if there are any rebate programs for energy efficient items for new construction and I would assume she's talking about new homes.

Scott: If it's a commercial building, new construction, we've got some things for new construction. Lighting, ductless heat pumps, and heat pumps even though it's new construction. We got programs for that, as well as we have  PT heat pumps, so depending... But that's going to be specific. Let me back it up. The PTAC heat pump thing is going to be specific to a building type, which is going to be lodging, hotels, motels and then assisted care living, retirement homes that kind of stuff. That's that one's very specific for that.  

The ductless heat pump and the heat pump will fit all business classes, as well as lighting for new construction on commercial. Residential... 

Lacy: So our new construction program we have run for the last couple of years we've gotten some traction. Some people are sneaking in right before there was a big code upgrade in February. So if you have your new construction permitted before the code change this February 2021, then you get to sneak into our old new construction program which the details are on our website. If you have a building permit for new construction that is after the code change February 2021, then we are developing a new program that fits with that. And for that you would want to write to Josh. Josh is as we speak designing our new construction for residential for new homes program. And that just depends on how much better than code your building will perform. So he's a great resource for that. 

I'm gonna go to a couple other questions that people wrote in before the show to conservation@chelanpud.org. We have one from Anna. Anna says that she's been hearing about hybrid water heaters and she's asking how these things are different from the stuff that we probably all have in our closets or basements or garages. Scott?

Scott: The big thing for us is that it uses considerably less energy to heat the same amount of water, which is what we're looking for as an electric utility. They are different and they kind of need a specific area. They're a little larger than your basic electric hot water heater, and they and they need more space. They need a bigger area around them the way they function. I mean, you can put them in tighter spaces but you're probably gonna have to spend some extra money to get it vented out to the outside. A lot of people put them in the garage because they work really well in unconditioned spaces to start with. Those are some of the bigger differences between the hybrid hot water heater and the old standard electric one. 

Lacy: For sure. So, why would somebody want to get one? Because when when I think about hot water heaters I'm like, "Oh, yeah...where's that in my...?" like most people they don't care as long as there's hot water coming out, it's a win. So why go hybrid? 

Scott: Well, mostly energy savings, I'm thinking. And you know a lot of times in the older homes they stuffed it in a small closet and so it's really difficult for you to get that stuffed in that small closet but if you've got it in a garage or something that's great because it's going to actually cool your garage in the summer. The way those things work, it takes the heat out of the air and expels cold air much like a heat pump. It's a heat transfer deal. 

Lacy: So in the right spot a hybrid water heater is brilliant. Right, like I'm thinking of the wine cellar that I don't have. It would be a perfect spot because it keeps it cool, keeps it dehumidified. It's essentially free cooling for this fantasy wine cellar. So in places like that or if you're an office building and you have servers.Those things just blow in hot air. Put a heat pump water heater next to it and you have essentially free cooling. So there's really smart places to put it, but it's not necessary that you have it in a space that needs cooling. You can vent it or do other accommodations for it.

Scott: Some commercial buildings, like you mentioned servers, is a great a great thing if you can get it there. Sometimes it's easy just to plumb it into that area if you're going to move on around. Some of our commercial buildings have laundry facilities. They already have hot water tanks in there, but then the laundry gets it nice and warm in there so that'll help cool that space down for them. Some of those unique spaces, those things are a really really good application.

Lacy: Hopefully, Anna, that answers your question about hybrid water heaters. They're a great way to save energy and with our rebates they can save right off the bat, out of the gate. For residential it's $800 bucks. Scott, you're paying for a commercial up to $1400 for these guys, which can make them essentially free. We'll pay up to 100 of your project costs. 

Scott: Yeah, depending on the cost of the hybrid hot water tank and it's steps. So you've got tier two and tier three, the ones we pay on. I think it's $1200 and $1400 bucks depending on the tier that you have, just some efficiency ratings they have on those things. So yeah. It can be very cost effective to switch over to those if you have the right situation. 

Lacy: So we have a question from Kathy saying, "What is the PUD doing about bitminers?" That's a great question because bitminers use a lot of electricity and our goal is to save electricity, so it's kind of opposite of the goal. To that Kathy, I would say we have some policies at this super duper long address here chelanpud.org, my pud services,rates and policies, high density loads. If you were curious about our policy currently for crypto mining and these high density loads, are what we call them, you'll be able to find all the information there. 

Going back to some more questions  that came in this last couple of weeks at conservation@chelanpud.org. We have one from Jose. He was curious, "Are there any DIY options that we have or do we really have to use a contractor to get a rebate?" 

Scott: So on the commercial side, you can DIY it. We don't have any specific requirements that you have to use a contractor off an approved contractor list so we have a lot of guys that will do simple lighting change outs and that kind of stuff. We don't see a lot of DIY when you're doing a complete HVAC overhaul. So that's mostly the contractors. We don't have anything specific that says you have to use a contractor on the commercial side of things.

Lacy: For residential, you can install smart thermostats, windows, your own insulation, trying to think...front entry doors, all of those. Yeah, it's really just HVAC. When you're touching HVAC, it's a pretty technical build, including ductless heat pumps. We sometimes get the question about whether people can install those and the answer is that performance of the equipment for HVAC in particular (so, heating, ventilation, and AC units) really depends on how well they're installed and how well they're set up, or commissioned, when they're installed. So that's why we want contractors to do those. But for the rest of them for residential, if you like to DIY, rock on. DIY, send us your application for a rebate, and we can pay out on those. 

We have a question about mini-splits. Yeah mini-splits are the ductless heat pumps. You'll hear them called "mini splits" because they have one unit outside and then you can have different heads inside. For mini-splits, you need a contractor to do it to make sure that they're operating properly. So we have another question here.

This one's coming from Kim, "Why don't you have a rebate for tankless water heaters?" Scott? What's going on? 

Scott: I get that a few I get that a few times a year, what's wrong with us? The majority of those are gas. The tankless hot water tanks are gas and the ones that are electric, they're pretty rare but they're out there. But they use a lot of energy, a lot of electricity to get that water hot instantly like that and that's just going to be...  if you can imagine everybody getting up at five or six in the morning and cranking that thing on as they jump in the shower. That's a huge load in our system, capacity wise. We're just not gonna, that's not where we're headed. So we would prefer not to have that or help incentivize that. 

Lacy: For sure. If you if you think about it in terms of if we had to put water pipes, you'd have to size those pipes for when everybody turned everything on full blast and so when we talk about electric tankless water heaters, we would have to upgrade our grid so big so that if everybody, like you said, in the morning was like BOOM! hot shower, we'd have to size our system for that and it's just not smart to build pipes that big with electric. Instead, if you're talking about gas tankless water heaters, as we mentioned before, as an electric utility, we're encouraging electricity savings not gas but perhaps your gas utility, if you wanted to go gas, maybe they have some rebates for you. You can always ask your gas utility. 

I'm going to go to a question that we received a little bit earlier. Scott D. is asking, "Our electricity rates are super low so why is Chelan PUD trying to get people to save energy?"

Scott: There's a few reasons behind that. Comfort and you can save energy and upgrade. We help you upgrade the things that might make your home more comfortable, help increase the value of your home. We want our housing stocks to be, in our business. to be healthy and one of the bigger things for us is our rates are so low because the business model we have at the utility we're lucky enough that we can generate our own energy off the river and so a lot of our power is sent out to the retail market and we make money on that, so then we can actually subsidize the rates at home for us here. So we don't have to actually pay for what it actually costs us to to produce the energy. It costs more for us to produce than we actually charge you but since we have so much if we can sell to the retail market we can actually buy those down so we have much lower rates here at home.  

Lacy: It's one of those things where I think people think about it the wrong way. They think, "Oh, I have low rates so why bother with saving energy?" when really it's like we have low rates BECAUSE we don't use all of our energy. The minute that we start using all of our energy, it's sort of like the party's over. We don't get that subsidy. But more than that, for a lot of people the reason why they're changing out their windows or their heating or things like that is because new windows are awesome. They make your home look super great, they work a lot better, they open, close, seal all of the wonderful things that we love about making our home comfortable. 

And the same for heating, right? People go for new heating because something broke and they're looking for better performing equipment. They want to be comfortable in their home. So we also look at our rebates and things like that as a way to improve the housing stock and the quality of life here in Chelan County. Sounds cheesy but it's true. If our homes are really performing well we don't have to worry about all these little things and as a PUD that's community-owned, owned by our customers, we're happy to pay out even just for quality of life kind of issues. Good question, Scott.

I have another question. This one's a little bit longer.... Let me pull up the full question that we got sent in. So Graham says, "I live in my dream home, a classic craftsman house built in 1929. I've always wanted to live in a historic home but honestly it can be pretty uncomfortable. The upstairs bedrooms are super hot in summer, some spots are freezing in winter, the windows rattle when it's windy. We already replaced a giant octopus furnace with a new electric furnace and a new AC unit and that helped a little bit. It has a double-brick exterior walls with a gap that helps insulate and the original wood windows with some storm windows that fit on the outside. But what do you recommend to help me be more comfortable in my old home?"

Scott: Those can be tricky because you're probably maybe in a historic district maybe not. If you are in a historic district, you're going to have to get things that make it look exactly like it's coming out, as far as windows and what have you, particularly maybe doors, but I always start with that. They've got plenty of window manufacturers that will make windows that replicate what you have that's from 1929 only they're super high efficient and they'll help with all the things we talked about with windows.  

Lacy: Oh, so you don't have to sacrifice the adorable vintage-ness of the home in order to get efficiency. You can get efficiency and look the part. 

Scott: I would. The older homes are notorious for not being air sealed very well or insulated very well. A little bit of air between a couple of bricks is not the same as getting the thing insulated and air sealed up and you're going to want to go after that. It's a pretty large project to do the house all at once so maybe as you renovate or upgrade rooms or this or that pay particular attention to getting the air sealing done and getting it insulated. That's really gonna help make your house a lot more comfortable and make your new HVAC system that you put in to replace your octopus much more efficient. 

Lacy: I chatted with a couple that they had a house in the historic district in Wenatchee they lived in. They completely renovated and they said one of the biggest changes they made is that they insulated and sealed everything. So yes, they they swapped out to a heat pump, they have a smart thermostat, they made these upgrades but it was really insulating that made all the difference because no matter how much you put your heat on full blast or your AC on full blast if all that's just going directly out, you're going to have cold and hot spots and it's a hot mess. And so really making sure that your house is "inside" by air sealing, insulating and making sure that your windows are well sealed makes a huge difference in terms of comfort especially for older homes. 

Scott: Yeah the air sealing is really the key. I mean you can stack six feet of insulation on top of your roof but if there's a bunch of holes in the ceiling out it's gonna just blow out right out into the outside, into the attic, and it's not gonna be doing it as much. But if you can seal the area and then wrap it with insulation that's gonna be that's the money shot right there. And it's not very easy to do necessarily in these older built homes just the way...they're balloon framed and just... it's tough but it's worth it if you can get it done. 

Lacy: So you, Scott, you actually built the home that you're in a few years back. It's a beautiful house. Great job! And I know that you took air sealing pretty seriously. So if you were to build a brand new home or you were to go and add a new addition, which a lot of people are doing right now to their homes because they're recognizing the value of having a little bit more space, a little bit more elbow room, how would you insulate or air seal a new space? 

Scott: Codes today make it pretty tight, much tighter than it was in the 90s and the 2000s when I was out there you know slinging nails together so the energy codes themselves have raised the level up quite a bit. On my particular house that I built and I kind of like a flash-and-bat where you, I used urethane foam and and sprayed a couple inches in the wall and then put a high density fiberglass pad on top of that so everything's caulked and air sealed and I foamed the sheetrock on top up in the attic and overall all the walls, any penetration to the ceiling, rim joists, all that stuff, plumbing, everything was foamed and then fiberglass on top of that so that that makes your house pretty airtight, pretty efficient. It's pretty cozy but I mean there's extra cost to that. Anything out of the normal is going to be an additional cost.

Lacy: In your example, so you're saying spray foam super light so that it air seals everywhere and then go in and roll out bats. I can roll out bats. I can do that. 

Scott: And even better than that, if you can put like an R-5 insulation board like a polystyrene over the top of that on the exterior  that's really going to help you because you get a lot of cold transfer like through the stud. Even at my house, because stud on the inside, stud on the outside and you're going to get cold transfer through that but if you can break that up with some sort of insulation foam board on the outside then you're really starting to get yourself sealed up and insulated to some sort of Alaska standard. 

Lacy: That's great! Alaska, right here in Chelan and it's interesting because one of the homes that currently is going through our new construction program is a passive house. That means that they have met such great insulative and air sealing properties that they're basically considered passive, meaning that they don't need this additional mechanical heat and air conditioning going. You can do pretty amazing things. 

I have another question here for you. It is about some underfloor electric heat, "Do you recommend or rebate underfloor electric heat?" and this would be for a new construction home.

Scott: We don't have anything on the commercial side for electric floor heat. I can tell you, I have it in my bathroom at home and it's really nice under the tile. It's on all the time.

Lacy: Can we just time out? Scott, you feel a little delicate. You have extra special sealing and you've got the underfloor heat in the bathroom and... 

Scott: It's great. Oh yeah, take a few indulgences here and there when you build your own house. I don't know. I'd have to refer to Josh on that. I don't know that I've ever heard him talk about having any sort of electric floor heat program.  

Lacy: So presently we don't, for residential, have an underfloor electric heat. The thing with that is it's essentially resistance heat, right? So you roll out your conduit, they come in these sheets, and then you can put whatever flooring that's allowed on top of it, often a tile like in Scott's bathroom or sometimes engineered floors can go on top of it. But at the end of the day, it's basically like if you took a baseboard and you unwound it and you stuck it under your floor. It's the same sort of resistance heat. So in terms of energy efficiency and using electricity.... 

Scott: Oh it's bad. I'm bad for doing that.  

Lacy: Sure, well it's not horrible. For one thing, things that you can touch, so like radiant heating that you're physically touching actually feels warmer even if it's a lower temperature. So in terms of the set point that you have there, you might be saving energy because maybe it's not at 70 degrees, maybe it's at 65 but it feels good enough on your little toes that that's good enough. 

Scott: Nope. I crank it up.

Lacy: Okay thank you. Thank you. So you can, you might have some savings in terms of that but in terms of the actual technology, it's not like a heat pump where the technology is pulling heat from outside to heat your home and so in that regard it's really a behavioral question as to whether you personally would be using it in a way that saves energy. 

Scott: Unless you get creative with some sort of a hydronic system and use a heat pump water heater, anyway.... 

Lacy: Yeah, you got your pool heat pump out there pumping water under your floor. At that point, I feel like whatever rebate we offer would not offset the cost of your custom little thing. So to answer your question shortly, we don't have a rebate for underfloor electric heat and that's mainly because the savings is a function of how you use it. If you use it like Scott does, you're not saving anything. If you use it like I would, you could save on your electric bill.

If you have any questions for Scott Stanford, our commercial energy advisor, go ahead and drop them in the comments and he will answer those for you or I can field some of them. I'm Lacy Stockton. I'm your host of the Power Hour and we actually do this every Wednesday at 5:30.  

We have a couple more questions here. Here's one. This one is from Katelyn. She is asking if the PUD helps renters with energy efficiency. 

Scott: Yeah, I believe so, especially on the commercial side. Most of the time, the rebate goes to the account holder, so maybe the renter's got the power in his name and it goes that way a lot of time, though it's on the commercial side. It's kind of worked out between the landlord and the tenants as to who's who's paying for it, who's getting the benefit of it and so it can kind of depend on that. 

Lacy: For commercial, it's kind of different because sometimes tenants go in there, they rebuild, they add say commercial cooking equipment, which we have rebates on, or refrigeration equipment or things like that that are definitely owned by the tenant themselves and so we can pay out on those if the tenant is the one on the PUD account. For residential, it's a little bit different because it's kind of rare that somebody goes in and replaces the windows, like brings their windows along with them to their rental and then when they leave they take them away. So for residential, it's slightly different. It depends on what kind of rebate. 

So, a good example of a rebate that would work for a rental situation is a smart thermostat. Smart thermostats are super easy to install and uninstall so if you were renting a home that had central heating, you could bring in your smart thermostat which helps save energy and also it's just really cool to be able to set your temperature when you're away or things like that. It's great if you have a second home, as well, so you can set the electricity down really low, the temp down really low when you're not there and then turn it up so that as you're coming into town your cabin is toasty warm without wasting a ton of electricity. 

So for renters, the answer is yes. All of our rebates are available for account holders with the PUD. And the other big service that we offer are our energy audits. So energy audits, we have a lot of renters that just want to know, "Hey, what can I do? I don't own my home but what can I do and  what improvements can I make as a renter to be able to save energy?" And so that is another great way that you can take advantage, maybe not of a rebate, but of some of the expertise that we have on our team. 

All right, Scott. We have no more questions in the chat. If you have one, this is the last call. Otherwise Scott is going to go have some din-din and then warm his toes on his radiant electric heated floor in the bathroom. Any other questions that come up over the next week before our next Power Hour just send to conservation@chelanpud.org and we will answer those live next week. We have Griselda Gonzalez. She is our energy conservation rep and that will be bilingual. Same power time, same power channel, right here on Facebook. Scott, thank you so much for joining. 

Scott: A pleasure. 

Lacy: This is so much fun. I feel like we should just hang out like this. I could wear my headset, you could bring your wildflowers. Thank you, Scott.

Scott: Thanks a lot. 

Lacy: Thank you all. Bye!

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